State House votes overwhelmingly to gut every LGBT fairness ordinance in Kentucky

You know how yesterday was a great day for the women of Kentucky in the General Assembly? Well, today is a very, very bad day for civil rights in Kentucky, as HB 279 — allowing anyone to ignore a law or statute if it violates their religion — passed the full state House by an overwhelming 82-7 vote.

So if you live in any of the cities in Kentucky with a LGBT fairness ordinance, HB 279 will now let you discriminate against a gay person if that is what you believe being a Christian requires you to do.

Amber Duke, communications director of the ACLU of Kentucky, concurs that this outcome would be quite possible if the Senate now passes the bill and sends it to Gov. Beshear for his signature. (Which will likely only be voted against by Lexington’s Sen. Kathy Stein)

“The way that it’s written — very broadly without any sort of exemption for established civil rights protections – it absolutely could be used to override all of the local statues in Louisville, Lexington, Covington and Vicco,” says Duke. “I think for a lot of folks, it’s like ‘Oh, religious freedom.’ And it’s really a misnomer.”

For those hoping that LGBT rights progress was on the rise in Kentucky following the wins in Vicco and Berea — and hopeful for movement on a statewide fairness ordinance in the near future — today is a truly horrible setback, for which both parties in Frankfort are to blame.

(Of the seven Democrats who voted against HB 279, we know they included Jim Wayne, Mary Lou Marzian, Joni Jenkins, Kelly Flood and Darryl Owens. We’ll update who the other two are (and thus who all of the Democrats who voted for it are) when we find out.)

***** UPDATE *****

The other two Democrats to vote against HB 279 were Reginald Meeks and Tom Burch of Louisville. That leaves three Lexington Democrats who didn’t vote against the bill: Jesse Crenshaw, Ruth Ann Palumbo and Susan Westrom. We hear that Westrom had to leave before the vote for a doctor’s appointment, but also that she was an early sponsor of the bill, which she later pulled. We’ll also guess that they might have some explaining to do to Democrats in their districts…

82 Comments

  1. Susan
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    this is disgusting.

  2. jarrod myrick
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    break louisville+contiguous cities & counties (including indiana cities & counties) off as a separate state

  3. Emma
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Please note this amendment: “provide that section does not establish or eliminate a defense to a civil action or criminal prosecution under a federal or state civil rights law or ***local civil rights ordinance***.” Did this amendment pass?

  4. William
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    This invites sheer anarchy. Should I baptize myself as a priest in a religion whose main practice is to dance naked around the bonfires of the burning houses of Republican state legislators? You cannot prosecute me without violating Kentucky law. And please send me my federal and state tax refunds reserved for clergy.

  5. Amy Lee
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Who should we be contacting in the Senate?

    I left a message on the legislative message line (1-800-372-7181) asking that they add language to the bill that protects the current civil rights laws – Are there any folks in particular we should be contacting?

  6. Michael Reed
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Polygamy legal for Mormons, Pot legal for Rastafarians, Gay Marriage legal for sane people, Child Molestation legal for Catholics, Human Sacrifice legal for Satan Worshipers!

    Woot, stupid rednecks do not realize that other religions exist!

  7. mark
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    OMG, TRUELY HATE IN ALL FORMS , SUPPOST TO BE THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH AND WE CONTINUALLY REFUSE BASIC CIVIL RIGHTS TO OUR CITIZENS AND UPHOLD DISCRIMINATION TO THE FULLEST UNDER THE GUISE OF LAW. WHAT A SHAME AND WHAT A HOUSE FULL OF IGNORANT MEN AND WOMEN WHO WE SENT THERE TO PROTECT AND SERVE. SHAME SHAME ON KENTUCKY!!!!

  8. Rene Thompson
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    This legislation is a train wreck as it would allow anyone to discriminate against women, raicial minorities, LGBT, other religions, you name it. And, imagine the fun of people who are practicers of Rostafarianism who use pot as a sacrament – they would now have a state legislative sanction for it. How about the evangelical Mormons who practice polygamy, that would legal under this bill, as would the snake handling and poison drinking done by some churches.

    People need to call their state senators and demand that the bill be amended so that it would not negate any other person’s civil rights nor negatively effect any already standing laws of the Commonwealth.

  9. chad
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    I am a christian and i dont feel like a gay person should have any rights.. it is sick . and no law will make me treat them as a equal..

  10. Michael
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Then, Chad, it’s possible you should reexamine your definition of Christian and being Christ-like, who, btw, never said one word about homosexuality – a word that was not even put into the Bible until King James (a blatant homosexual himself) had it put in when it was translated into Old English and thrown at there at the King James Version (the ONLY translation of the Bible that many uneducated Americans will accept). End scene.

  11. Sam
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Chad, I am a Christian too. And you’re a moron who doesn’t truly understand God’s love. Idiot.

  12. Earl
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Religious beliefs do not trump the Law; I beleive this will eventually be struck down.

    Antonin Scalia writing for the majority- Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 [1990]:

    “To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself…”

  13. bill
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    outWow this is rediculous….horrible even….and you people who judge someone whom is gay all deserve to burn in hell i am neither gay not catholic/Christian and you idiotic morons are the reason why i believe their is no God…you should definitely climb into your attic with a noose stand on a desk tie it to your rafters wrap it around your neck and jump as high and far out as you possibly can…..and F.Y.I this is my opinion……one of my best and most loyal friends is gay and i support him 100%

  14. Sam
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Says the man preaching tolerance…

  15. Ken
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    You know Chad, psychologists say that the most vehemently anti-gay people very often have sexual orientation issues they are surpressing. Any thoughts?

  16. Sam
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    No one is fit to judge another. And everyone is equal. Just sayin, coming from the other side, I have been literally spat on by a person (who happened to be gay, but that is neither here nor there) just because I am a Christian. I don’t judge people, and I fight for everyone’s human rights. Yet, I get discriminated against because I am a Christian. If you’re going to preach tolerance, you need to live it.

  17. Samantha J
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Chad.- Really? You consider yourself a Christian? Yet you seem to harbor so much hate for people you do not know or understand. What happened to “judge not lest thou be judged” or “love thy neighbor as thyself”? Condemn the sin, not the sinner. No one sin is greater than any other. Your hate, sir, makes you no better than any other sinner on this earth. Maybe you should read your Bible a little more closely. Prayers for you sir.

  18. Ashley Sidebottom
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    What happened to “separation of church an state”?? Regardless of religious beliefs, we do not need a law promoting discrimination of any kind. We have the first amendment to protect religious freedoms in this country. I agree that this will only open the door to all kinds of problems!

  19. Tony N
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    “So if you live in any of the cities in Kentucky with a LGBT fairness ordinance, HB 279 will now let you discriminate against a gay person if that is what you believe being a Christian requires you to do.”

    Nothing seems as un-Christian to me than that statement.

  20. Drew
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    You know guys, the Bible does forbid homosexual behavior. 1 Corinthians 6:9 says those who practice homosexual behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God. Also the Apostle Paul condemns homosexual relationships in Romans 1. You can like it or hate it, but you can’t say that homosexuality is not addressed, or is just somehow swallowed up in God’s love. God is love, but He is also holy. He still judges murders, adulterers, etc. Chad’s way of expressing himself is not the best. But the practice of homosexuality is actually forbidden by our religion, and a business owner should have the right to make his hiring decisions in a way that agrees with his conscience.

  21. Wayne
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Herein lies the problem. We live in a State stuck in the 40′s and filled with people who idolize a sport over the needs of its people.
    I look forward to the day when I move to a more progressive State, for the most part take LVille and Lexington away from Ky and you are in the dark ages. AS for Chad I do feel sorry for you as you preach out of both sides of your mouth and neither one makes any sense. As they say in the Hood, Yo Da Fool……

  22. Kevin
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Drew, there are many different interpretations of what you mention – and not to nit pick, but the comment specifically mentioned that JESUS is never recorded in the Bible as having say anything about homosexuality, not Paul. Modern conceptions of “homosexual practice” and ancient conceptions are very different – like the subjugation of another person to show power over them as in a conquering group over the losing group – wholly different than two committed people. All this is talk about banning same-sex religion is actually a violation of the First Amendment if you base your opposition to same-sex marriage on your own interpretation of a particular religion.

  23. Colette Henderson
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Don’t forget to overload your senators with calls about this!

    Here’s the voting record in case you have 1 of the 7 representatives that stood up for Fairness. Make sure you call and say thank you.
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/13RS/HB279/vote_history.pdf

  24. Drew
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Kevin, I was not so much interacting with the previous comment about Jesus, as simply pointing out that the Bible as a whole does in fact condemn homosexuality. Orthodox Christianity views the Bible as a cohesive whole, inspired by God. This means that while Jesus, the man on earth recorded in the gospels did not mention homosexuality, Jesus as 1 person of the triune God of Christianity DOES in fact speak on homosexuality. For example, in the Mosaic Law, or through the apostle Paul. An orthodox Christian cannot say “Jesus was right, but Paul was wrong.” Also, the specific topic under discussion is whether a business owner can discriminate based on LGBT preferences, not “gay marriage” in general.

  25. Mark
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    What happened to the separation of church and state????

  26. tana
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    I definately want to know who the other Democrats were…..For shame….shame on all of those who revoke peoples rights in the name of religion

  27. Roel
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Drew, the problem with your argument is that religions are basically just a collection of made-up stories and ideals that stem from deeper fundamental philosophies. Just because yours was created by people 2000 years ago doesn’t make it any more special or give you the right to discriminate against people of different race, creed, sexual orientation,religion etc (there are plenty of religions that are older, so you can’t say that duration of existence is important). What if I made up a religion that stated that (for no apparent good reason to you at least) that white male Christians are blasphemous and started spewing the same hate and discrimination you do, how would that make you feel? Do you feel like it would be OK for any of my business associates to deny you a job solely because you are a Christian, because that is their ‘conscience’ to hate white male Christians?

  28. Roel
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    I suggest adding a healthy dose of (secular) common sense to your existing religion. Religion can be and usually is a good thing, that can give guidance and meaning in one’s life, but without common sense and regard for others rights and feelings, it isn’t. You being okay with discrimination against LBGT groups is no better than fundamentalist Muslims in the Middle East who use religion as a crutch to validate their oppression of and violence toward women and ethnic minorities.

  29. Anon
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    I also love how certain Christian societies accept war, killing, lying, etc etc but for some reason get all hot and bothered over LGBTQ issues. This isn’t really about religion, it’s about discrimination. Don’t get distracted by the justification. Also, stop giving all Christians such a bad name.

  30. Kai
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    Hey, America, do you remember this:
    Separation of Church and State
    Separation of Church and State
    SEPARATION of CHURCH and STATE
    SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
    S E P A R A T I O N O F C H U R C H A N D S T A T E

  31. Stephen
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    To all those who call them selves Christians but yet you judge others for what you feel is sinful behavior. Let ye without sin, cast the first stone (or something like that) the point is that your own relgion tells you not to judge others but yet you do. People like you are the reason I and millions like myself refuse to go to church or buy into any religion. You love to use the word Christian to describe your self but yet you refuse to practice what the teachings. Thank you once again for reminding me why I became a Buddhist. No one has ever died in the name of Buddha and I have yet to read anything in the book of Buddha that I disagree with.

  32. Greg
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Chad is a freakin’ idiot who is cordially invited to kiss my big fat wet spot!

  33. Tammy
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Chad, “Christians” like you are the reason I stopped going to church. Thanks for the reminder.

  34. Tammy
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    And BTW, I believe the “thorn” in Paul’s side
    Was s struggle with his own homosexuality.

  35. Drew
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Roel, interestingly enough, I also think that a business owner that chooses to not to hire me because I am an angry, hate-spewing, white Christian male should have the right to do so. That is because my Christian faith, in addition to telling me that homosexual behavior is wrong, also teaches the principle of private property. It’s his money, and he has the right to dispose of it as he wishes. If he chooses not to contract with me for my labor that’s ok, because it’s his money, his property. Just like you or I get to decide what “goes” or doesn’t on our property, he should as well. Every person’s religion will inherently inform the way they should or shouldn’t spend their money.

    To your follow up comment, I refuse to accept your equation of a Christian’s refusal to hire a homosexual with a Muslim (or Christian, or anyone else for that matter) perpetrating physical violence against a woman or ethnic minority. It’s not the same, and consistent Christians should not tolerate those behaviors.

    Anon, many American Christians accept totally unjust wars because they believe it is in our nation’s best interest, and is somehow justified. The drone strikes in Pakistan are a good example. I as a Christian believe war should be used only in situations of defense against a dire peril. The drone strikes are often murder perpetrated against innocent civilians.

  36. mickey
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    What victory in Berea? The mayor’s executive decision is nothing more than self-serving political pandering that can be reversed by the next administration. Let’s give credit where credit is due and call out those who pussyfoot around taking a truly meaningful stand.

  37. Sammy
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Drew.

    The Bible also contains the murder of innocent little boys and their mothers, while giving away little girls as spoils to the men who butchered them.

    With God’s blessing.

    Later, he would kill Moses for striking a rock in anger.

    I think we can both agree the country would be improved if everyone actually read the Bible, don’t you?

    Now while you can ignore the endless horrors in your ancient book, and look the other way as your true miracles flee before modern recording technology, those of us who actually follow the Golden Rule see no reason to allow your carefully concealed prejudice to push us back into the dark ages.

    Enjoy your victory, while it lasts. You won’t get away with this.

    Nowhere in the New Testament does Christ order you to turn away those you don’t approve of, in order to be seen practicing your faith in public…

    The Bible may be a pack of lies, but it’s not a “get out of jail” free card to just justify whatever the Hell you want it to.

  38. Abbie
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    This article and situation make me ill. The true beliefs of a Christian are that only God himself has the right to judge or discriminate against a human being for we are all sinners in his eyes. Not to mention the statement made by Jesus, “treat others as you would have them do unto you.” People are one sided in their opinions and there is no Christian faith that gives people the right to hate on others.

  39. Drew
    Posted March 1, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Sammy, I assume you are referring to the conquest of Canaan. There is an even “worse” example than that, coming from your perspective – in the great flood God destroyed everyone on the earth except for Noah and his family. It’s true that it’s a slam on Christianity in your eyes. From my perspective it’s quite simple: God reserves the right to judge his creatures when they rebel against Him. He also has at times past used His people to do it. He even judged HIS people using pagan nations later in history. What’s more offensive? For me to believe that God was justified in killing off those evil nations, or for me to believe that God is justified in sending people to Hell if they continue to rebel against Him and ignore His way of salvation? Yet that’s what the Bible teaches. I’m not trying to convince you not to hate the Bible. What bothers me is seeing people claiming the name Christian, but who clearly pick and choose whatever parts of the Bible suit their fancy! If you want to be a Christian, then you should believe the Bible in total. If not, then don’t be a Christian. It offers life and salvation to those who humble themselves and believe God.

    And God didn’t kill Moses, at least not in the way he killed the people in the flood. Moses died. I agree with you that the country would be a better place if everyone read the Bible and believed it.

    As to my “victory”, I’m not sure how big of a victory this is. Most of the momentum appears to be on your side right now!

  40. Douglas
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    People who believe in “GOD” or follow religion are mentally unstable. They are brain washed and should be locked away. This is sick. The Bible is only a man made piece of hatred. A story book that is controlling a large number of lost souls. I feel so sorry for anyone who reads it and believes it.. SMH

  41. Douglas
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 1:18 am | Permalink

    Drew, is a good example of a waste of human life. Feel so sorry for his parents. They deserve to be slaughtered.

  42. Bubba
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    I believe n God Im not gay but my sister is and people are talkin all this shit the bible was written by a man not God himsellf they 10 main rules to live by Ive never sene it in there to go bashing on gays but do unto others as u would have them do unto u and let ye who is amongst us without sin cast the first stone is a couple off the top of my head that is leave Im not gonna grab a snake unless I have to aint drinkin no poison cause I dont think God wants me 2 I have smoked weed but I WANTED 2 and Im not bashing a man or woman cause they gay and God help any one who would hurt one of my family members because of thier sexual preferance / BUBBA FLETCHER

  43. Mike Stiles
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Just wondering if this legislation works in Bowling Green.

    I want to take advantage and go beyond the gay thing. I want to find a religion that allows exceeding the speeding limit. There are certain roads in BG where 35 is way too slow. 70 is more the comfortable limit…

  44. Regina
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    It actually says in the bible that you should put your children to death if they “curse” you or talk back to you. Is that legal in KY now? The first court case to use this as a defense is going to be interesting.

  45. Pyhn Tang
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    I suspect a kickback scheme between some legislators and the civil liberties bar.

  46. David Sykes
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Love one another.

  47. Virginia Jolly
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Please do not think that this represents the feelings in Louisville.

    This HB 279 got under my radar and I didn’t get an opinion in.

    Louisville has always been supportive of GLBTQ Fairness. Now I have a list of people to vote out next time I vote.

  48. Chuck
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Drew, if you believe the Bible litirally, then you are NUTS!! Let me ask you this, how old do you think the earth is? One more thing, Do you believe in Extraterrestrials? Why do you worship your GOD on Sunday when CLEARLY Saturday is the Seventh Day? At least according MY calender! Woops that was two. These ridiculous laws will never pass. And if they do, the people of this state will clearly do what they must to bring about the change that MUST happen. Anyone who wants to remain in DARK AGES clearly will just have to DIE OFF!! As seems must happen to get this kind of progress. Unfortunately!! But, it will happen. Back to Drew, sorry but religion IS NOT about HATRED! I feel sorry for you that hold this hatred for these people who have given so much to our society. Gay people are just like you! Oh YES! it’s true. They are no different than you. As a matter of fact. They are WAY more HUMAN than you could possibly be EVER!!! You know the Bible says a lot of things that if we took literally, WE WOULD ALL BE DEAD! Oh I have to ask, and please be honest, Do you have any tattoos?? Also, have you ever had SEX outside of being MARRIED?? Have you ever thought of having SEX with your neighbors wife? I’m just curious because the BIBLE says, YOU SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH!!! ANY COMMENTS!!?????

  49. Justin Matthews
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Dear Drew,

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I
    have learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with
    as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
    lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22
    clearly states it to be an abomination…end of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements
    of God’s Laws and how to follow them.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
    female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
    of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
    clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
    Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
    price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
    period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15: 19-24). The problem is how do
    I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
    pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They
    claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
    clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill
    him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
    abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
    I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?

    7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
    defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
    vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
    around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
    19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
    unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different
    crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of
    two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to
    curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the
    trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.
    24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family
    affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev.
    20:14)?

    I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
    considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
    Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and
    unchanging.

  50. The Man
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Chuck,

    You are obviously very uneducated about the Bible…actually period. There is not one single valid point in your ranting. Also, does the use of all caps make you feel like you are getting some sort of point across? Epic fail

  51. Rick
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    DREW, you have no right to call yourself “christian”. Your a bigotted, ignorant, stupid man!! Obvious you are a very weak man, your opinions are based on a book written by a gay man 400 years ago. Blindly following these out dated scriptures…like a calf to slaughter…..blindly. Unable to actually form your own opinion. Are you a member of another so called christian group, they wear white sheets to hide their identity.

  52. WR
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    There will be peace on earth as soon as all the “Christians” die and go to heaven. I think that is what the bible teaches us.

  53. john
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Chad, guys just like you that end up being in my bed “straight guys” that that would bend over……Drew that is your opinion and I respect it, but how about if I am about to hire you (and you are the best employee in the country) and i discover that you are christian and i am a jew and i decide to not hire you because you are not part of my religion, and i hire a 18 year old boy (that hasnt worked in his entire life) would you think that it is fair? would you feel like i was descriminating you? SO IT IS THE SAME THING, YOU HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS TO NOT BE FRIENDS WITH US AND NOT ACCEPT US IN YOUR CHURCH, BUT NOT TO DESCRIMINATE US….JUST SAYIN`

  54. Mike Mansfield
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Let me get this straight.
    I am an ordained minister; but that is not a factor in this bill anyway.

    But let’s say I teach that we should have as many wives as possible aged 13-17 and defend it with some biblical passage (since I could with some study) and I find a couple of other adherents (or not, since MY belief shouldn’t matter), then I can’t be prosecuted for having sex with my five 16-year-old brides.

    There may be some language in here to keep that from happening; but that is just one example of where this isn’t religious freedom at all but an attempt at establishing religion in a state to overrun with biblical bigots.

  55. NLH
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Drew,

    Everyone is telling you that you’re wrong and why your thoughts are hurtful, outdated, etc. While I agree that this piece of legislation is horrific and a terrible reflection of too large a portion of society, and I could share my own anger and sadness toward your comments and overall views, I’d prefer to ask you this:

    You replied to one comment saying that most of the momentum is in our favor and I genuinely want to hear why you think this is? (This is also open to everyone, especially those that think similarly to Drew)

    Thanks.

  56. Drew
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Chuck, I believe the earth is around 6,000 years old, based on the Bible. I don’t necessarily believe in extraterrestrials, but who knows for sure? Christian churches worship on Sunday, the “8th day” (or 1st day) because that is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. In the new testament they had started gathering on the 1st day of the week to “break bread” (Acts 20:6-8), i.e. the Lord’s Supper. Why do you think I hate gay people? I’m saying that I believe their behavior is wrong, and that business owners should have the right to decide not to hire them. That doesn’t mean that I hate them, by any normal use of language. No, I don’t have any tatoos, but the Bible does not forbid tatoos, so it’s irrelevant. No I have not had sex outside of marriage, and yes, I occasionally sin and lust after another woman besides my wife. The Bible does not say that I should be put to death for that, I don’t know where you got that. It does say I should confess my sins and repent, trusting in the blood of Jesus for forgiveness. God’s requirement throughout the Bible is never about living perfectly, no man has ever done that, except Jesus. That’s why we can’t save ourselves. The question is what do we do with our sin and guilt when we realize we are terribly sinful? Confess, repent, and have faith? Or just try to ignore our guilty conscience and claim there is no standard for right and wrong?

  57. TIMOTHY
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    To the State of Kentucky and those legislators who voted for HB 279 — allowing anyone to ignore a law or statute if it violates their religion — passed the full state House by an overwhelming 82-7 vote. You have now voted to overwhelmingly to gut every LGBT fairness ordinance in Kentucky. Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law.

    I have learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination…end of debate. It means you do not follow the New Testament and Jesus’ teachings. So maybe God will consider you and me heathens and banish us to hades for our transgressions.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
    clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
    price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15: 19-24). The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2, clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
    I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?

    7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? What do we do with High School and Professional football players, kill then after every football game played?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

    I know you in the Kentucky Legislature and government have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

  58. Drew
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Justin, your attack is far better and complex than Chuck’s at least. I will respond if you are interested, but I don’t have time tonight. I have to go get ready for church tomorrow :) .

    John, I may not think it’s fair, and I may think it’s foolish for that guy to hire an inexperienced 18 year old instead of me, the best employee in the world. But I don’t think I should use government force to coerce that man into hiring me. If I’m really that good, someone else will hire me quickly.

    And I apologize to any of you guys I give the impression that I hate gay people. I think the behavior is morally wrong – much as I believe adultery, fornication, bestiality and many other sexual sins are wrong. It doesn’t mean I hate someone that does those things.

  59. john
    Posted March 2, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    DREW GIRL!!!!!! YOU NEED TO GROW UP AND REALIZE THAT THE WORLD IS MORE THAN THIS! SEE YA IN CHURCH BABY =*

  60. Shawn
    Posted March 3, 2013 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    This Really Pisses me off.

  61. jason
    Posted March 3, 2013 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    If your gonna bible thump, dont cut your beard, put that bacon and ham back on the plate, oh and that must mean you plan to trade your daughter off for a couple mules…huh! And I bet you gossip and probably hate a neighbor. And if you do all this right…I still bet you lie….chad is sad…..prayin for ya bud

  62. Matheus Grunt
    Posted March 3, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Good! It’s a victory, especially for Christian’s! Alot of folks are being subjected and forced to provide for these people when nobody should have to, believer or not. This is part of the broader agenda to water down and weaken America and I’m glad these politicians had some balls to pass this bill.

  63. Drew
    Posted March 3, 2013 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Justin, first of all, I think you can relax a little bit in your efforts to follow the Mosaic law. The law was given to God’s people when they were children (Galatians 4:1-7), in order to lead them to Christ, much as a tutor raises up a small child (Galatians 3:23). Now that faith in Christ has come, we Christians are no longer under that tutor (Galatians 3:24). This means that when Christians investigate the Mosaic law, they are typically trying to find principles that help us understand the character of God. God does not change, so much of our understanding of his requirements for human behavior can be gleaned from the law – as long as it is viewed in the context of the entire scriptures. This doesn’t mean that God has no moral requirements anymore – it just means that Christians don’t “pick up” the Mosaic law out of the pre-Christ, Israeli-centric people of God and place it on our own situations with no further Biblical consideration.

    With that in mind, some of the problems you are facing are quite easily resolved, as I’m sure your overburdened conscience will rejoice in! For example, the laws of cleanliness/uncleanliness were a huge part of Israel’s ritualistic worship ceremonies. Touching a flow of blood or a dead animal made one unclean. This was to constantly remind the people that sin comes from within mankind and flows out (like blood or other emissions) and sin leads to death. Sin and death contaminate and spread, therefore they were unclean for a period of time, and then allowed to wash themselves and re-enter the tabernacle for worship. In the new covenant in Christ, we don’t have to do ritualistic washings over and over again to maintain our “cleanliness”. That’s because we have one simple washing ritual in Christianity – it’s called baptism! Baptism covers the entire life, as the church has taught for centuries. All the washing/cleanliness laws are summed up in baptism. So don’t worry about touching the football – no problem! Also, I tend to think the blood-centered laws of the Old Covenant do not carry over either, so I wouldn’t worry about the menstrual cycle thing. However, you only want to have sex with your wife, because the Bible says that fornicators and adulterers God will judge (Hebrews 13:4)! So you want to avoid that.
    Don’t worry about sacrificing your oxen anymore either, because Jesus died and put an end to the need for sacrifice (Hebrews 10:11-13). Also there’s no physical altar anymore. The cross was the final altar, so don’t worry about your eye glasses either. The continual sacrifices of the Old Testament were to remind people of sin. The law of no defects was to show that ultimately a man must be made perfect to serve the Holy God.

    Many other laws were pictures to demonstrate to Israel that they were to be set apart from the other nations around them that worshiped idols. Clean and unclean animals represented this, as did the laws of mixed planting, mixed garments, etc. With the New Covenant in Christ, the flood gates opened if you will, bringing people of ALL nations pouring into the Kingdom of God. Therefore the old symbolism of clean/unclean animals, mixed planting, mixed garments, etc, became obsolete. Note Peter’s vision in Acts10:9-16. I tend to think that the beard laws fall into this category as well – it’s part of Israel being Holy before the Lord; it distinguishes them from other nations. It may also have something to do with pagan rituals, since it’s grouped with things like divination, soothsaying, and making cuts on your body for the dead. That’s just a theory. I actually don’t understand every single thing about the Law of Moses, and never claimed to.

    Don’t kill your neighbor over the Sabbath, because Colossians 2 says: “Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

    Finally, on slavery, God isn’t speaking to you directly when he tells the people of Israel that they may take slaves out of the pagan nations that are surrounding them. Nor what they should do if they have to sell their daughter as a slave. You see, unlike bankruptcy laws in America, where one can run up tons of debt and then declare bankruptcy, in Israel under God’s law, the system of justice involved restitution. If one fell on hard times, then the children of Israel were supposed to help sustain him. But if he ran up so much debt as to be unable to pay, then he could sell himself and his family into servitude to pay. It sounds harsh to us, but it prevented the injustice of running up debt and then getting off scott-free. It also probably discouraged irresponsible lifestyles to begin with! For an Israelite, this “slavery” would have been more like a paid servant, since they could not be treated harshly or unfairly (Leviticus 25:36). This is how slavery could happen within Israel – as restitution for a debt. Foreigners living peacefully within Israel could be purchased to pay off debt, but they could not be kidnapped or oppressed unjustly (Exodus 22:21). It’s true that Israel could also take slaves from the pagan nations surrounding them – but this would probably have been the result of war situations (for example Numbers 31). So that’s how you became a slave to an Israelite – either you ran up so much debt that you had to sell yourself and your family, or your people made war against Israel and you got captured as a prisoner of war. Interestingly, there were also several laws that required good treatment of slaves, in some cases physically harming the slave could result in them being set free. You, Justin, don’t live in that culture and don’t have God’s sanction for taking a slave – although you’d be perfectly free to hire either a Canadian or a Mexican to work for you and pay off a debt!

    So there you have it, a very long answer to a long series of questions. Now, honestly, I doubt you care anything about Leviticus, because you don’t really care about the word of God. If all these questions out of Leviticus are really what’s making you doubt that homosexuality is forbidden, then I’ll just say this: leave the Mosaic law out of the equation entirely. I’ll leave you with 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate by perversion, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” If you practice these things habitually and without repentance, the Bible says you won’t inherit the kingdom of God. So like I said in a previous post, either love it, or hate it, just don’t pretend the Bible doesn’t speak against homosexuality.

  64. Drew
    Posted March 3, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    And by the way, I won’t bother you guys anymore. At least on this post.

  65. jimmers
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    The funniest thing about this bill is that god isn’t real and people still think he is……

  66. KY Xtian
    Posted March 9, 2013 at 3:26 am | Permalink

    As a Christian, I’m deeply offended that my state lawmakers believe that they need a law to protect any personal beliefs that I may have. Christianity is a moral and ethical code for individuals to adhere to, it is not a law upon itself, and was never meant to be one.

    America was not founded as a theocracy based on the Holy Bible. It is a nation based on the ideas of democracy and fair law. There is much fairness and decency to be found in the Bible, which is why many of the founders themselves personally believed and followed, but not at one time did they ever push for any religious zealousness over secularization.

    If you personally believe that homosexuality is a sin, that is fine, you don’t have to interact with those who are. However, if you are offering goods, services, housing or employment to the public, then you must accept the entire public at-large, and not just those whom you deem to be individually worthy. You are free to practice your bigotry unto yourself, but your rights do not allow you to push your beliefs onto others.

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  1. [...] GA_googleFillSlot("FatLip-LeoBlog-Leaderboard"); GA_googleFillSlot("FatLip-LeoBlog-FullBanner"); « State House votes overwhelmingly to gut every LGBT fairness ordinance in Kentucky [...]

  2. [...] and concern about the bill can be seen at “Religious freedom bill” heads to Senate State House votes overwhelmingly to gut every LGBT fairness ordinance in Kentucky Share this:SharePinterestFacebookTumblrTwitterGoogle +1RedditStumbleUponLinkedInDiggPrintEmail [...]

  3. [...] The Kentucky House of Representatives yesterday passed, by an overwhelming bipartisan majority of 82-7, House Bill 279, a so-called “religious freedom” bill. In its present form, it would allow “persons” (I assume this includes artificial persons like corporations) the right to act with minimal government interference, so long as they can cite a “sincerely held religious belief.” In form and effect, and likely also in intent, this bill threatens to gut local civil rights protections in Kentucky based on gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity– protections like Louisville’s Fairness Ordinance. It is a stunning and shocking development for all of the people who for over twenty years have fought hard for the basic human rights of all people in Kentucky. [...]